posted July 02, 2001 08:33 PM            

The torch has been passed to me simply because I'm here so much. Wolfie needs a vacation for all the work she has done. Go take a break and sip something out of a pineapple with an umbrella in it. So if there are no serious oppositions, I would like to get this party started.

As you already know, Spiritual Paths is a place to discuss all matters of being. Everyone is welcome. If you have a topic to discuss, just throw it out there. Feel free to bring up past SP discussions. No holds barred. Although a side note of caution: if you say something in a negative tone, please expect the natural reaction to be one of hostility.

With this said, I will lay down one ground rule. I will not tolerate any fighting. If you have issues with a particular person, all I ask is that you take it outside and email each other to death. I promised Don Mike that I would behave. So the rule applies to me as well.

The Nitty Gritty

This is called The New Dirt because when I think of a path, I think of dirt. That’s what paths are made of as far as nature is concerned. Since this is sort of a new beginning, I simply call it The New Dirt. New path, new beginning, new dirt.

And with the new comes new topics.

But ironically in the middle of all this newness, I bring up the topic of death.

Memory of Death

I received a company email today in memoriam of a vice president who had passed away over the weekend. I thought this was a very odd thing ot receive with my daily news updates. Or perhaps it was fitting. I'm still not sure.

Anyway the email went on to list his professional achievements. I was appauled. A man just died and the president of the company is talking about how he rearranged the mid-west offices. In ending, it listed the survivors and said that he was not only a good VP, but he had the ability to light up a room. He had a sense of humor that would be missed. I was starting to feel embarrassed. The sum of this person was professional achievements and a couple of clichés.

We all get condensed. Duncan gets looped in categories as a “sensitive singer/songwriter”. But the people who know him know that he is much more that that. Heck, we even know he is more than that. It is easy to say that we are much more that people portray us as. We are more than the sum of words. But yet we still try to explain people. And fall embarrassingly short.

So do you think about your own death? What will it be like? Will there be a lot of people? Someone will go to your funeral because they feel it would be impolite if they did not. You don’t really know this person. How do you feel about people coming because of forced politeness? How do you think your friends and family will sum you up into?

I don’t think this guy ever imagined his death would be a short corporate announcement via email. Imagine what it is like for his acquaintances who sat in offices near him. All his stuff was there this morning. Work neatly in a pile for Monday morning. His coffee cup waiting. Today, someone had to walk into a dead man’s office and collect the unfinished work for someone else to do. The last thing on their mind was how the mid-offices were rearranged.

Wolfie’s Topic

Wolfie brought up a topic on Book 1. I have copied it here.

quote:

---

I thought of a topic last night while watching an MSNBC special on spiritial "mediums" - fake or real?? We've already discussed whether the dead might be roaming the earth; but what about those alive who say they can communicate with the dead, especially if they're making a living by it?? John Edwards was featured. I personally think he's too savvy to be the real thing. I'm not saying "mediums" don't exist, however. It was very interesting. But my thoughts will have to wait. Busy today. Fire away guys as only you know best to do...

---

You can also comment on my war rant. Go back and look at Book 1 to see it. It is on the last page.

Well, I think that will do it. The floor is yours.

PS. Jeez, these are getting long. This is starting to look like the Bible. In the future we could refer to this as Dirt 3:2. Hey Wolfie, how many books in a path?

posted July 02, 2001 10:41 PM            

I do think about my own death. Usually in the context that I hope I've done something good before I die. I am not afraid of the dying. The fear comes from the idea of dying before I make a contribution that will live on after me. And some people would probably say that I already have. Being a good friend or daughter, making someone's day a little brighter. These could be enough to qualify as a worthy contribution. Or, these should be enough to qualify.

I think funerals are very odd. People get together to grieve, and then go to someone's house to eat. They seem so bizarre. But I know that funerals are for the living. And I guess people need to make the effort to show that the deceased will be missed, but then they need to move on quickly.

My friends and family will probably remember me through funny stories. I am anti-graceful. There have been so many times that I have tripped over my own feet, fallen down, said something stupid, or embarassed myself in some way. My loved ones will probably get together and tell funny stories about me, and laugh until their tears are from joy and not sorrow.

Speaking of death, I am watching Tuesdays with Morrie right now. I was very saddened by Jack Lemmon's death. He seemed to me to be someone who would always be alive. He was always so vivacious. I am going to leave you now so I can watch the end, and cry.

Until tomorrow--
Niki

posted July 02, 2001 11:04 PM            

So do you think about your own death?

Not really. I think I focus on experiencing and learning all I can while I'm here that I don't have time to worry about when it's going to end.

What will it be like?

Hopefully painless. Probably somewhat sad because I'll be leaving the people I love, but content that I've learned a lot and hopefully touched some lives.

Will there be a lot of people?

I hope not. Who wants to see them dump my body into the ground?? I have never been to a funeral. I don't feel it's necessary to watch people dispose of a body that has no life in it. And I feel like I can do so much more to remember my loved ones than being present at their funeral.

Someone will go to your funeral because they feel it would be impolite if they did not. You don’t really know this person. How do you feel about people coming because of forced politeness?

HaHa.. well, I feel badly that they felt obligated to waste their time

How do you think your friends and family will sum you up into?

At the funeral, they will undoubtedly say beautiful, exquisite things as though I could do no wrong. And maybe for a couple of weeks they'll only think of the good things that I contributed to their lives. Eventually, they'll remember that just like everyone else, I had a lot of weaknesses. Hopefully, I'll leave a few beautiful memories behind.

-Britt

posted July 03, 2001 12:10 PM            

hmm...oh, yeah, so i want my funeral to be like a party. i want music, and dancing, and people to have fun! it sounds weird, i know, but i want people to talk about "oh, yeah, i remember how she did this once and made me laugh so hard i almost cried" not, oh, its so sad shes gone!

posted July 03, 2001 07:34 PM            

didnt mean to freak you out jenn. calm down. why does death freak u out so much. its just thinking...death isnt really gonna come right that minute. hopefully.

i have a little addition to my topic -

Is it important for people to mourn your death?

posted July 03, 2001 10:49 PM            

So I will wait to discuss pondering my own death when I don't feel it's knocking at my door by way of heatstroke. On to John Edwards and friends. Oh! BTW - did any of you see "The Daily Show" last night? They picked up the story I brought up about "Leo" the dog being thrown into traffic. Leo didn't have much time to ponder HIS own death, that's for sure. I was wondering how long it would be before Jon Stewart and company got wing of that story. They can stretch that one out awhile and be hilarious without being insulting to either party, well, almost...I think they were pretty satirical about the guy being found guilty and maybe having to do time, but I still thought it was funny.

OK. Spiritual "mediums." The second book in the Old Testiment of the Bible states that "mediums" or "spiritists" among the people are to be put to death. I know this is not a "spiritual" thread any longer, but I think it's interesting...not that God said that any found were to be "stoned to death" -but rather that God acknowledged they exist. Most of modern Christianity goes by the new "law" made by the crucifixion of Christ, chronicled throughout the New Testament, which nullified most of the Old Testament by way of "law" (old SP1 stuff). I don't know of it even being mentioned in the New Testament. Anyone? Just curious.

I believe "mediums" definitely exist. I believe in the paranormal. I had ESP as a child (I remember, plus it is validated by my very sane mother), but I outgrew it somewhere around age 12. I still have weird things happen occasionally, but I won't get into that; my life is bizarre enough as it is!..lol. It's not really of any value anyway; let's just say I can be a bit "intuitive" at times. I was never close to being a "medium", but I believe that somehow there is an "in between" in the hemisphere of this planet for some reason - between heaven and hell; spirits not quite on either side of the life hereafter. Now I can have a belief in "spirits" roaming the earth by way of my faith, or just by my own thinking and reasoning. I do believe there are some people with "spiritual gifts" that are able to tap into this "hemisphere" and make contact with it. I believe many times one can tell who's a real "medium" and who is not. A decade or so ago there was a woman (don't know her name) who I believe was the real thing. In fact, her character was portrayed loosely in the "Poltergeist" movie. The lady who helped pull the little girl out of that hemisphere and safely returned her back to her folks. Works so neatly in the movies! This woman kept a low profile, but was solicited by the police to help solve crimes and was generally believed by even the most skeptical to be "psychic", and by her own accord, a medium. I saw her on a talk show several years ago and she did some mind-blowing things, though she stated that she never took money in favor for lending her "gifts." She preferred to NOT be on display, but rather to help people where she saw fit. She did help many families resolve issues with loved ones that had passed on. But she was ever so humble about it all; though if you chronicle her life's work, there is no doubt if you have any bit of an open mind, that she was genuine. She died a couple years ago, very quietly. I saw her death mentioned on the "Liza Gibbons" show, as she evidently had been on that show several times in attempts to help people with various issues. The folks on that show, including the host, seemed quite emotional when mentioning her passing, as though they knew we had lost not only a gifted psychic, but a beautiful and fascinating soul as well.

Today, however, being a "medium" seems to have become a trend. John Edwards? Watch him at work. He has many tricks up his sleeve, probably none of them psychic in my opinion. He hosts his own show for cripes sake!! I've never seen the show, but I've watched him. He's quick. People pay big bucks to get a reading from him, thus they've already put themselves in the emotional state of wanting him to be right on. Not only because of the money they've paid, but these people really do want to make contact with their loved one(s). So he talks VERY VERY fast, almost like an auctioneer. And he asks many general questions. And he poses many general statements that might be applied to anyone's situation in death and mourining, when he starts to learn a little more of their story. Sometimes he does score a direct hit, thus he has many believers. There seem to be a lot of skeptics, however, mostly because of his huge ego surrounding his "gift." Geez, your own show! People in the audience show up and he comes out and says "Whoah! I'm getting someone around you sir, uh, I'm getting the letter "P" or "B" or, are you getting me here? Oh! "D", uh, did you lose a male in the family?" OK - not a direct quote but if you guys have seen him at work I'd be interested to know what you all think. Someone on the MSNBC documentary commented "I would want to believe that if my deceased grandmother were trying to contact me, she wouldn't be playing some sort of sharades (sp?) game or 20 questions." Makes sense. There is another guy who's first name is Paul, I believe, who I feel is genuine. But I believe people with these "gifts" are indeed rare, and the ones who are genuine, probably don't parade it around on national TV. It's probably scary for them sometimes as well, I would imagine. Like the kid in the "Sixth Sense." And most of them certainly aren't out there to make a living by it. I don't believe you can just command a spirit to "come on down and have a chat." Creepers! If I were that spirit I'd demand my share of the royalties!!

So I've now sweat a gallon up here and my son's watching "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas" on DVD. Think I'll go dream of a white Christmas now. And a very cold snow day.
Later! Hope everyone is having a great 4th! No illegal fireworks!! We have that here, cuz if you set off a small bomb the whole state could catch on fire and burn to the ground. You could fry an egg on the sidewalk right now! Oh well, beats an earthquake I suppose (knock on wood...)
Shari

posted July 03, 2001 11:39 PM            

Will it be important for people to mourn my death, mourning for me like funerals is not something that is done for the deceased, it is a way of coping for the living, so yes in order for one to heal mourning is important, but it makes not difference for the dead. I imagine for some people it will be important to them to mourn my passing, but if not how would I know, and I certainly wouldn't care either way, because I would be dead.

Mediums - I am not really into that sort of stuff and know very little about it. It is not that I am a believer or non-believer, I mean whatever gets someone through the day, but I have difficulty putting weight into what I can not experience. I have never personally had "visions", although I did have this weird dream last night about walking holding hands with my grandmother, who died 6 years ago, and we were in this white hallway and suddenly I stopped and gave birth and then my grandmother was holding my baby and then she left. Interpretations welcome. I do however have times when I get this really awful sickening feeling that something bad is going to happen, sometimes it does, but generally it is called over reacting.

posted July 04, 2001 09:57 AM            

As for the state of Toronto, Toronto is just a city, sure it has a higher population then some provinces, but if you are going to showcase a lack of Canadian knowledge it is the state of Ontario.

Actually I am unsunburnable, (Shari, is that a word?), Has anyone seen the movie Interview with the Vampire? Think back do we all remember what Brad Pitt looked like? I would make him look like he spent quality hours on the beach. I actually looked down today and thought, I do not remember putting on white pantyhose, yeah okay I didn't they were my legs.

posted July 04, 2001 03:16 PM            

I am from Toronto, of course, I suppose it is like any other big city, although I have an American friend from Arkansas that travels a lot, and he told me in comparison to many US cities, downtown Toronto is much cleaner and the people friendlier. I have not done much exploring outside southern Ontario, which is the more developed strip. I could go into the whole thing about development and urbanization, but won't. I am actually very much into the history of Toronto, especially the architecture, so I could drone on for hours, but will contain myself. The northern parts of Ontario are still rather rural, and have lots of undeveloped land.

posted July 04, 2001 09:38 PM            

Ok, i just watched the movie Quills so i am in a certain state of mind...tehe.

A question from the book of questions:

19: you have the chance to meet someone with whom you can have the most satisfying love imaginable - the stuff of dreams. Sadly, you know that in 6 mnths the person will die. Knowing that pain will follow, would you still want to meet the person and fall in love? what if you knew your lover would not die, but betray you?

ok, im going to go ahead and answer my version as i go. Even if i knew the pain that i would endure, i would love to fall in love and have all that hot nasty sex. it is kind of odd bc i have yet to be inlove. but the closer i get to it, the farther away it seems. i kind of see the end is near, but go ahead with it. and i am torn apart and the crying and the nonstop writing for days and nights - oh its disgusting.

i answer the same if i knew he were to betray me. i hate the cliche Better to have love and lost...bc i think its crap. but i say love. love until it hurts. love when it hurts. and if i loved him, and he hurt me...well, it seems i would have a bit of issues to work out.

In love, in intensity or permanence more important? How much do you expect for someone who loves you?

well if you mean permanence like stick around till the morning after breakfast, then yes. if you mean permanence like for 50 years, then no. Intensity is important. i have no sense of time. (i think its sunday at 7 oclock. ive been thinking this all day. i keep reminding myself that i have to go to work tomorrow.) permanence means nothing to me.

What makes you feel betrayed by your mate - indifference? dishonesty? infidelity?

What is the one thing that a man can do to betray me? I mean really betray me? well it take more than sleeping with another. sure, that isnt excatly a walk in the park, but there are worse things...

Indifference drives me fucking bonkers. i am so passionate about everything i come across (as you have noticed), someone who just doesnt care, i just wanna strangle them. slap them around. "Can you feel this??!! Why dont you have an opinion??!! WHY ARENT YOU SCREAMING LIKE I AM!!!"

Dishonesty even more so bc of personal experience and just bc it flat out sucks. but then i stand to beg the question. a couple has to be dishonest with eachother to a certain point. it is the only way 2 people, in love or not can live together. it is what it takes to stay sane. so i can deal with dishonesty to a certain point. i am ususally smart enough to figure out what the hell the truth is. but i know this can only work sometimes...

Heres another:

Which sex do you think has it easier in our culture? Have you ever wished to be the other sex? Be honest!

ok, we are women, we know it sucks at times. ok, sometimes it sucks a lot. but there are times when i absolutely wouldnt want to betray my gender for the world. but honestly it has to be easier to be a man. why? just the "different" thought-process a man has is so cleansing than this constant noise in my head. everything is so much simplier...this damn chromosome makes me think too much!!

Have I ever wished to be a man... well, what do u think?

posted July 04, 2001 10:00 PM            

i think it has less to do with gender when it comes to assholeishness (i am laughing at that new word). i think it has more to do with the person themselves. the person betrays you, not their gender.

i also believe that while men carry their power in their fists, we must carry it in our...ahem...thighs.

posted July 05, 2001 05:37 AM            

#3.Dishonesty I guess would be the worst.I mean we all make mistakes but when you can be honest and open with your mate I think it really makes a difference.But honesty is a two way street if you want someone to be honest with you you have to in turn be willing and open and forgiving with them.

posted July 05, 2001 09:26 PM            

[This message has been edited by wolfspirit (edited July 05, 2001).]
*in edit for Mari because of my painfully long discertation. I believe intensity is short term in a relationship, if that "intensity" is not able to progress into "reality", which is sometimes intense and sometimes a friggin' drag! You can have short term intensity within a long term relationship (we have great bells and whistles sometimes) but intensity by itself in the long term doesn't work, if you are going for permanence. A permanent relationship is intense at times on many levels, good and bad, and sometimes is just daily life. Clearer? Probably not. I'll go hide now...

posted July 05, 2001 09:36 PM            

ok, i must share a little gem with you guys...
www.harrisonplatt.com

a friend of mine is in this group. go on the site and check out the music (i think it is under mints) i think you will be plesantly suprised. tell me what u think. if u like it, email me, and i will show ya how to get his stuff.

we seem to be writing thesis papers again. i guess i am asking good questions...

so shari, i read that whole thing and i still dont know. which is more important to you. permenance or intensity?

posted July 07, 2001 01:10 PM            

Death, I think about it a lot. Sometimes, when I get really nervous, I think that I could be dead and not living this moment at all. In fact, I die a million little deaths a day, it feels like, just so I can appreciate time and be serene.

Give me Fire, Air, Earth and Water, in a relationship. Intensity (Fire) is important because, it inspires romance and passion. Nothing worse than feeling like your roomates who have sex with each other. The dangerous part of it is just getting so caught up in the emotions that nothing else is cultivated.

Poetic communication (Air) is also key. Feelings need to be expressed. For instance, if I like a particular movie, I will tell what I felt about it, what ran through my mind, more than just taking scenes apart and analyzing it. Pretty much, two people should always express themselves to each other.

Stability (Earth), insecurity gets too bothersome after a awhile. A relationship doesn't have to get boring to be stable. it's just understanding one another well enough, to be able to branch out and do different things.

Finally, Endurance (Water).
The relationship must be adaptable and patient. It can go to all levels of emotions. Faith is strong here. Takes on an important sprititual element.

oh, sorry if I went off the deep end. Relationships are so important to me, I think about these things alot.

What can someone due to hurt me?
Leave me out to dry. I'm independent but I also need a ton of support. If you can't understand where I'm coming from, or worse yet, don't even try, I get depressed.

Alright, let me stop now.

Hope all is well.

Best Wishes,
Amy

posted July 07, 2001 07:47 PM            

This may seem a bit weird but, while up in the Hampton's last weekend with my girlfriend I was wearing flipflops. We both walked along the same paths, but my feet kept getting literally black on bottom and on top. I looked at her feet and her's were pretty clean. On the beach, her feet clean, my feet black. Before the show, my feet black and we walked the very same paths. I found this to be alittle bit strange.

My conclusion.......... Along the road to Awareness and Spiritualness, the road must be paved with dirt. Or this was just some kind of sign????

Only serious known responses welcome.
And has this ever happened to any of you??

posted July 07, 2001 10:26 PM            

Why do YOU think that happened Wuz? This is your moment. What was life trying to teach you?

I think it fairly obvious. It all in how you walk. She picks up her feet, probably walks like she is riding a bicycle if we could watch it in slow motion. You probably walk like me, and kinda slush around.

Neither is right or wrong. One picks up dirt though. Now you have dark footprints. maybe you need to see where youve been...

Did you feel the need to change?

posted July 08, 2001 03:28 PM            

I don't think that either gender has it easier. There are different stigma attached to both, and different burdens. The burdens are not all bad for either group. Women are burdened with physical things:childbirth, cramps, make-up, nailpolish, shaving. Men are burdened with ego:strength, masculinity, hubris. It's like trying to compare apples and oranges. Women who enjoy sports or competitiveness are butch. Men who can have a real discussion about emotions are pussies. I think that it sucks to expect either gender to always reflect certain characteristics.

For the other part of that question...No, I haven't ever wanted to be a man. I enjoy watching sports, am very competitive, and drink beer. But I like being a girl. I am just not you're average girl.

And on the love thing...I would absolutely enter into a relationship knowing that it would end in six months. If it was going to be the perfect dreamiest relationship, a love like no other, hell yes. I want to know what it is like to have that, even if it is only for a short time.

Indifference, dishonesty, and infidelity are all betrayals. They all really fall under dishonesty. If someone could just be honest with me about their feelings or actions, that is really all I could ask for. Deceipt is so ugly. If a person could say I've done this, or I feel like this, we could figure out if it is something we could fix, or if it is time to go separate ways. Lies of any kind never lead to a good thing.

JENN--HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! I'm sorry it's a day late, but HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!! And by the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

posted July 08, 2001 04:16 PM            

I do most definitely believe it was a Dharma moment; and as to it's many meanings- I believe there are a few in general.

This occured just hours before I was to see Duncan that evening, hasn't happened since.
For many days before this day I have been at great peace with myself and the world.

While on the beach that day with this being the second noticing, the water was too cold, powerful to wash them off.

I believe it to be the awareness of the Earth, Water and other elements involved. This was a sign that I am seeing ever so clearly. This was a most special day.

Happy to share it with you.

posted July 09, 2001 06:32 PM            

you and a person you love deeply (for shits and giggles, lets pretend its duncan) are placed in seperate rooms w/ a button next to each of you. you know that you will both be killed unless one of you presses the button before 60 min. pass; furthermore, the first to press the button will save the other person, but will immediately be killed. what do u think u would do?

now heres my little addition:

would you sacrafice our beloved duncan for you own ass? is there a person in your life that u would die for? If there is not, do you believe there should be?

do believe that killing yourself to save another is heroic? does it count as suicide? what are your feeling towards suicide?

posted July 09, 2001 11:55 PM            

if you had a dream where god asked you to kill yourself, would u?

posted July 09, 2001 11:59 PM            

Suicide is suicide. Yes, it may be for a good purpose, but it is still killing yourself. It's a textbook definition... I think some suicides ARE heroic. Take, for instance, a person who cannot be saved, who is taken off life support because there are people at that moment that could use their organs for new life.

I once told my friend Nicholas that (assuming there is a god, it doesn't matter if you believe in him, because I don't...) if God was to open up the heavens and demand that one of us had to die or both of us would, I would offer myself up in a heartbeat. He got really upset and insisted that that wouldn't be what he wanted, and that he could never live with himself if I was to do something like that because my loss would be on his shoulders, and he couldn't handle my loss anyway. I insisted that I would give my life for him because the love I hold for him is so deep and intense that I couldn't bear the thought of him dying, or leaving those who loved him. He said the same of me... The conversation ended very strangely, with us both seeing exactly where we stood with one another, and thinking about the loss of one another, and with him in tears, near hysterics...

posted July 10, 2001 01:48 AM            

Wolf- Good illustration with the Vertical Limit movie!(good movie too!!)

Goodnight Everyone!!