White Limousine
Hi,
So the single is going to radio next week. I wanted Rounder to do a single cover with a white limousine flying through the air with Santa’s head coming out of the sun roof and the limo overflowing with presents. Best case scenario … not going to happen. One of the radio reps at Rounder asked me on behalf of some of the stations she talks to what the song is really about. Is White Limo about our American Idol, reality-tv culture, or is it an anti-bush song? Here was my reply …
Hi Katrinka,
It’s both.? In my humble opinion, the tacky, wasteful, over-hyped part of our entertainment culture and the scary political reality we now face in this country are both symptoms of a deeper problem.? I think the problem is philosophical.? It seems like many of us in this country?find?powerful ways to either?not look into what’s going on in the rest of the world, or to rationalize the state of the world by means of some messianic fantasy.??Whether you are too busy reading about Brangelina to read a book about 20th century middle-eastern history, or you just assume that what happens in the middle-east is a biblical foregone conclusion, those are both ways of avoiding the more difficult reality of our complicated world.? It is Bush that I’m poking fun at in the second verse of the song and his “mission accomplished” speech that I’m referencing at the end, but I’m not really?villainizing him.? I feel bad for him that, because his world-view is so inaccurate, he makes such terrible decisions.? ?I also feel bad for people on the streets of New York when, on the anniversary of 9/11, a fire-truck covered in American flags flies down the street with Josh Groban’s “Wings of an Eagle” blaring from it’s speakers, assaulting everyone with the worst possible combination of Jingoism and bad taste that you could possibly concoct.? But, there it is, and I really do wish Josh, George, Brad, Jen, and Angelina a holiday season filled with good friends, family, warmth and all the happiness that freedom can buy.??
Cheers,
DS
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:23 am
Brilliant. :)
Laura
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:25 am
DS, you rock!
December 2nd, 2005 at 12:47 pm
That is absolutely fantastic. Totally made my day!
(a different)
Laura
December 2nd, 2005 at 2:31 pm
I can’t say you’re very mainstream, but that’s what I like about you. On a side note, thanks for making a stop in Utah on your tour!!!!
December 2nd, 2005 at 2:47 pm
You are a wise man duncan! :)
December 2nd, 2005 at 3:16 pm
DS, I like you and your music LOTS, but politically… :-)
Cheers,
~L
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:02 pm
I think it’s too bad that you criticized one of your audiences as “too poppy”, and now you are delving into the world of “Celebritybashingtheestablishmentism”. I think you are taking the easy way out.
Oh well…to each his own.
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:36 pm
Subtle poison… you are clever, really clever. That?Ls why I can always expect things of a higher level from you. Well done, well said. And I am still curious about knowing if your dvd will contain your videoclips.
Do it for the sake of the fans! ^__~
Hugs and cheers!
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:49 pm
Dunc,
I had to look up Jingoism. Good word.
I honestly don’t know what the world, or even your fanbase for that matter expects of you. If you write what you feel, and it happens to be political our contrary to what is popular, than you have been placed nicely into a catagory by your critics. I’m not much for labels. For me, you’re just a guy making music and singing about the way you feel. I don’t care if it’s political or personal, and I certainly don’t care if it’s popular. I just hope that you are neither concerned with fitting into a catagorical box nor escaping one.
~David
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:08 pm
Interesting. I think a point to be made of all of this is how everyone has to take such “views” on every media. I like how Duncan pokes fun of things while still making a point. Yet, he doesn’t go overboard and put down people. Insulting is insulting. Making a point is entirely different. Oh, and the “list of sins” now says that White Limo’s coming out in the past. THAT would be a cool trick.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:41 pm
Brilliantly worded! Your educated and intelligent response made me giggle.
Cheers,
Sally
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
Duncan, I don’t envy you…it seems as if there are ALWAYS those few out there out to get you…those who enjoy taking EVERY SINGLE word that ever leaves your mouth…analyzing and judging….. and then from that, assumptions about your character made…*sigh*
I guess some people just can’t see the big picture. How incredibly frustrating.
Just know that there are some of us out there(here) who understand what you’re saying, and agree…and appreciate that you’re saying it. Someone needs to freakin’ say it!
Laura
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:39 pm
Wow- sometimes I feel musicians grow to be a little too self-important at times. Duncan, I love you man, but you cannot possibly have me believing the fact that you haven’t sat down to a couple of episodes of “blind date” after a drunken stumble through your million dollar loft after some sort of soiree filled with blow and uber-models.
Just because I love your music, doesn’t mean I cannot delve into a little Josh Groban once in a while. His voice is gorgeous, and yeah- he’s not too bad looking either. Interesting too, how you write a song about “Magazines” and admit you’ve “bought a few,” yet rant about those who have interest in the Brangelinas of the world. Both contain info and pictures of alluring skin and sex.
I just felt attacked throughout your rant- though I can relate to stepping on a soapbox and not getting off until I see a few in my audience blushing with anger and embarassment.
Well, my cheeks are rosy and I feel feverish.
I still love your music.
Drea
December 2nd, 2005 at 7:06 pm
There’s no question the Bush administration’s Middle East policy is a triumph of ideology over reality.
That Bush continues tirelessly to try and rally Americans’ support for the Iraq war amid rising U.S. casualties is sickening and shameful.
But dangeous ideologies are not exclusively American. Sadly, W doesn’t own the copyright on flawed worldview.
The terrorist attacks in London, NY, Madrid and elsewhere should tell us, as a world community, that it’s obvious we aren’t doing something right as a world, or that we’re failing to do something that ought to be done.
What the world needs now is … peaceful insistency. To paraphrase a DS lyric, “Maybe a white dove … .”
December 2nd, 2005 at 7:23 pm
Jaz Coleman of Killing Joke said in his video interview that the way to control people is to keep them busy and keep them in debt. Drawing Jaz’s and Duncan’s words together, I think the overall message is that we are too distracted from what is important. If we are not too busy or not too buried in debt to pay attention to the world, then we are met with many distractions. Celebrities are used as unwilling tools for distraction, and there are far more important things with which to be concerned.
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:15 pm
Some people are soooo sensitive!
: )
DS
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:17 pm
The big picture:
Duncan is not putting down Josh personally…or Josh’s music. Or Josh’s family. Or Josh’s whatever. It really has nothing to do with him. Josh’s song just happened to be playing during a cheesy, inappropriate moment. And I would have been disgusted had I seen it as well. And I don’t feel as if Duncan is being self-important. He’s just making an observation. And if anyone has not made a similar observation, then I feel as if they’re not really and truly paying attention to what’s going on in our world today. The fact is, there’s something seriously wrong here. And it’s sad. And scary. And it just continues…
And in reference to Drea’s post, haven’t we all given in to temptation at certain times in our lives…you know, been BAD…maybe not quite a soiree filled with blow and uber-models, but something we succumbed to? Maybe yes, but…we’re human. And even if Duncan does indeed do blow every single night with uber-models, it’s irrelevant to what he’s saying here.
The fact is, it’s WRONG to be saying “rah rah rah America…go America…I’m PROUD to be American” as a firetruck decked out with American flags rolls down the street 5 years after our blunder. How the frig can people be INTO something like this?? I’m ashamed to be an American right now. We’re all just missing the point and denying what’s really happening. We should be saying, “we made a mistake, we’re continuing to f*ck things up…let’s do something to change it”.
Laura
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:33 pm
Duncan,
I don’t know if that was a response to my post, but you’re right.
~David
December 2nd, 2005 at 10:26 pm
Topaz,
“as a firetruck decked out with American flags rolls down the street 5 years after our blunder.” - You’re kidding right… if you believe that anything that happened on 9/11 was “our blunder” you should get your head checked out.
“I?m ashamed to be an American right now.” - So leave, this country has no room for cowards who want to appease our enemies. Go move to France with Barbara Streisand and Sean Penn, you can take Duncan with you too for all I care.
December 2nd, 2005 at 10:57 pm
Whoookaaay …
Everybody take it down a notch. Impassioned debate about domestic and forign policy is what this country and it’s “freedoms” are all about. Telling people that “It’s my way or the highway”, or “Move to France because you are a coward” is certainly not. (Though moving to France is not a bad option as they have much better wine then we do.)
Anyway,
Peace and Love and alll that,
DS
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:12 pm
I was just going to write that as well- chill out guys!! Duncan, you are no different from any of us in that you are an American, and as such, you are entitled to voice your opionions whatever they are. BUT as being a celebrity, these opinions do get scrutinized much closer. Who cares that Joe Blow from the local watering hole hates Geo W, but when you say it, someone is going to call you on it. I don’t envy your position at times- as a songwriter you express your thought, opinions and feelings. And in this process, sometimes this can come back to bite you in the ass.
With all of that being said, I DO have to agree on your assessment of W’s complete lack of understanding of the world. I returned to the states in January after living in Chile for 4 years and it was a real eye opener to see just how the world views us. Most non Americans greatly dislike W precisely for his “my way or the highway” mentality. IMO, he has taken our standing and the world’s opinion of the US back at least a generation. There is no cultural sensitivy or apparently even understanding within the current administration. My boys were called a “Son of a Bush” the last year we lived there. Not too pleasant.
You just keep on doing what you do so greatly, and if someone doesn’t like it, they can choose not to listen, as is their right guanranteed by the many who have fought to give us this.
BTW, you said that While Limo is going to radio next week- I just heard it this afternoon (I’m in Tucson) on Comcast Satellite radio’s Adult Alternative station. Satellite before radio???
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:14 pm
Oh PS- have you ever had Chilean wine?? Some of the best in the world- the Carmenere is great.
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:26 pm
Yes, we got a lot of “early” spins from a lot of stations, both satellite and terrestrial … which is always nice : )
But Dec. 5 is the big day so, you know, call in and request it and all that …
XO
DS
December 3rd, 2005 at 12:34 am
On a music related note, I just got 2 tickets for your February 3rd show in San Juan. My fiance look forward to being at our very first show together, and our first Duncan Sheik show overall. Have a good night.
~David
December 3rd, 2005 at 12:39 am
You are totally my hero. (Even more so now.)
- Russell
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:36 am
Bush is hopeless… But, what does it say about our country’s political system when we can’t come up with better candidates than him or Kerry or Gore?
On a different note, hurray for ‘White Limo’ !!
December 3rd, 2005 at 3:00 am
Duncan,
Now I have another reason to love you. Not only are you a gifted musician and lyricist, but you totally “get” whats going on in this country. It’s scary that we have a leader who believes he was chosen to bring forth the second coming…..and it’s frustrating to see so many people in this country not “get” it.
As a desendant of Roger Williams and John Alden, freedom of speech is in my DNA…..and it should be in every Americans. That’s what this country was founded on, so lets all respect each others opinions. At least we can all agree on our love of Duncan Sheik. Duncan, you are amazing!
L.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:15 am
Oy…just went out to dinner with gal pals and temperaments are on the rise all of a sudden…
Alrighty, kisses/hugs/CHILL PILL to all(take it, I don’t usually give it so freely, heh) :-)
Duncan, as far as France is concerned…oui, le bon vin/la bonne nourriture et ce’st tous! Monsieur Chirac am afraid…is quite ludicrous and sinister that with the current turmoil in his own country…he too, is yet to design an “exit strategy” with the chaos taking place in the outskirts of Paris. Soooo, lovely country to visit, but I still love the USA and like being an American.
Okay, just merely my own opinion…now, don’t go ballistic on me :-)
Goodnight/Good Rest/Sleep Well…To All…yes, you too—>Duncan Sheik :-)
Peace/Cheers,
Leveriza
December 3rd, 2005 at 5:23 am
Duncan and to everyone else…not trying to offend anyone, but to the Bush/His Administration Bashing…I leave you with a quote(by a fairly well-known journalist) that best summarizes my view of this “war matter”….
“…There are two absolutely crucial things that made me a supporter of regime change before Bush, and that will keep me that way whether he fights a competent war or not.
The first of these is the face, and the voice, of Iraqi and Kurdish democrats and secularists. Not only are these people looking at death every day, from the hysterical campaign of murder and sabotage that Baathists and Bin Ladenists mount every day, but they also have to fight a war within the war, against clerical factions and eager foreign-based forces from Turkey or Iran or Syria or Saudi Arabia. On this, it is not possible to be morally or politically neutral. And, on this, much of the time at least, American force is exerted on the right side. It is the only force in the region, indeed, that places its bet on the victory and the values of the Iraqis who stand in line to vote. How appalling it would be, at just the moment when “the Arab street” (another dispelled figment that its amen corner should disown) has begun to turn against al-Qaida and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, if those voters should detect an American impulse to fold or “withdraw.” A sense of history is more important than an eye to opinion polls or approval ratings…”
Lots of people have been saying “withdraw from Iraq”…well, I just do not think that would be the best solution…let’s finish the job and truly help the Iraqis and yes, I am quite aware of the casualties/sacrifices to be made in order to succeed(if you must know, I have a Darling relative there making a difference wether you support this war or not). The regime change in Iraq will(hopeful thoughts) bring about peace/order throughout the entire Muslim world…
There you go… now you all know tha I am a Republican(probably the only one or one of the few around here)…have fervently listened/read thoroughly and never-ever gone on the attack mode for the many Democrats here—am hoping you will do the same…BE NICE :-)
Oy…I must get to bed… :-)
Peace/Cheers,
Leveriza
December 3rd, 2005 at 5:45 am
First off, I think your idea for the single artwork is rather appropriate.
(Too bad it’s not going to happen.)
I was very excited to find out about your upcoming show in San Francisco!
Never been to the Independent before…but I’ve heard it’s cool.
I’ll be buying my ticket when they go on sale this Sunday! Can’t wait to see you again! :)
I will be sure to request White Limo often…the radio stations need to know that there’s more to you than just your first 2 singles!
:) -Tammy
December 3rd, 2005 at 8:58 am
Yikes, I guess I sort of deserved that agaraffa. I should’ve know better. I also should’ve known better than to combine cold medicine and wine with political discussions. I did a horrible job at making my point last night.
So, in defense of my less than intelligent blathering…
I was not referring to 9/11 as our blunder. I was referring to the actions it triggered…to how our president responded to the horrible tragedy. (or I was trying to anyway but obviously failed to make my point). We(he) made a mistake. But the sad part is, it’s not being admitted. And people continue to die for it. And the hatred for Americans grows. I think we need to admit our mistake, and then do our best to undo some of the damage.
And I feel as if American flags flying out of firetrucks racing down the street to a cheesy song is inappropriate because it puts the focus on the wrong thing. The focus should be on the people who were lost…the families affected. All the “rah American” stuff somehow cheapens that(in my eyes anyway). And it’s almost as if it makes some of us angry and wanting to lash out at non-Americans, rather than just being sad.
And I like the country I live in and would prefer to stay thank you very much. I just don’t like the way it’s being run. And our actions and our choice of who we want to speak for us…it honestly embarrasses me.
Laura
December 3rd, 2005 at 10:50 am
This post is officially “The Most Intense Blog On Duncan’s Site to Date!”. Just goes to show you how much power words can have when it gets people all riled up like this. Personally, I have not invested enough time into looking these issues so I would not be able to give an educated enough response. Are these important issues and should I look into them? I would say yes, but until I do, I can’t take the word of a pop star as much as I can take the word of our president. What I am getting at is people need to do some research and find out for themselves before they just listen to what Billy Joe, Duncan, Bono or G.W. are saying and follow like programmed robots.
December 3rd, 2005 at 11:59 am
That’s the key - making an educated decision after all the facts are in, about where you stand politically - and then applying your belief system to that decision & standing up for what you believe in. Politics & Religion are aloke in that way & too many people dont educate themselves about whats going on in the world & they latch on to the popular opinions to stay safe. By the same token - talking about these issues, you never know who you are going to offend. Opinions are personal beliefs not facts! I applaud you Duncan for ALWAYS saying what you think & having a strong belief system in place - words no matter how scathing, are still the most peaceful way to air our differences & speak our minds.
December 3rd, 2005 at 1:30 pm
wow..duncan your site has gotten too political for me!!!i was drawn to your site this morning, i don’t visit very often. the last time i was here, someone was saying something about our president in one of the threads and saying that people that like bush are idiot’s or whatever and you know what? i’m just sick of hearing it..and “people who agree with bush don’t have a real view of the world”? please! give me a break.
and i am not even here today trying to defend bush or talk about the war. i’m just saying that these blatant statements about “we made a mistake” about 9/11 as far as saying it was america’s fault and we need to make up for our mistake” are you kidding me??? the person who said that, are you kidding me?? last night i watched a documentary on ben laden and his statement was” We love death. You(americans) love life. That is the difference”..come on people, get with the program. we’re not the enemy. and i’m so tired of people saying that Bush is and that Americans are. i’m entitled to my opinion and i think some of you are wrong just as you think i am wrong. and that’s ok.i don’t have a problem with that.
and yes, i Do think this is more than about what meets the eye. i Do believe it has biblical ramifications.. and in saying that, i can feel the persecution now, but i don’t really care about that. i’m a black woman in america, and i didn’t say african-american because on one side it’s black the other is white, and i won’t lable myself just for the satisfaction of some ethnic group., so i’m used to odds being stacked up against me, i’m getting off track, but my POINT is this!!!
one of my neighbors, one of my best friend’s for 20 years, her son was killed in Iraq last year, jesse burhj(pronounced buddy).. he was twenty one..i watched this young man grow up..i sang at his sister’s wedding..he was over at our house every day..he knew what he was fighting for…i could go on and on..i am forever grateful for him..
so, when some of you are ranting and raving about your opinion remember that there might be someone out there who just loves duncan’s music and just wants a little respite from the world..and they might be between breaks, over in Iraq, defending our right to carry on here like obnoxious idiots..” don’t have a real view of the world….”
please…
my son is dating a muslim from afghanistan..i’ve heard many taliban stories of knocks on the door and uncles leaving ,who never came home..
“don’t have a real view of the world”…again, please..
i have friends who are buddhists and i’m a christian..and i like bush..
so, that’s my opinion..
and i will still listen to duncan…. still hear his music and appreciate it and care about it… still love to work with him some day, and i will stand in the audience while he bashes bush..because i respect him as an artist.
December 3rd, 2005 at 3:23 pm
I’m going to try to keep my emotions in check this time and say a couple more things…
Firstly, I want to stess the fact once again, that I DO NOT think what occurred on 9/11 is our fault or that we asked for it in any way, shape, or form.
Secondly, as much as I am against war, I did support our actions in Afghanistan.
Thirdly, I’m against the actions in Iraq because I feel we were misled, lied to, and manipulated by the “powers that be”. They used our emotional weakness at the time to gain support for a pre-emptive war that turned out to be not primarily in the defense of our country. As far as a pre-emptive war goes, we could have easily chosen North Korea or Iran for the same reasons(build-up of weapons of mass destruction).
And no, Duncan’s political beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with his music, but I personally feel as if he should be able to start his own topic, on anything he wishes, on his own blog. And if it makes anyone angry, they shouldn’t read it.
Laura
December 3rd, 2005 at 3:33 pm
p.s. Regarding me heading to France….There is no other country I’d rather live in. However, I am not happy with our particular president, or most of his actions. That doesn’t make me anti-American or any less deserving to live here. We are allowed to voice our opinions against our government. And that’s one of the things that makes America great…rah!
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:19 pm
Hey Duncan…
my name is DeReK from Boston Ma. and i am thrilled to see you this sunday in Boston… i met you a while back at the Capital Grill on Newbury st… and i handed you a cd of mine… “Meet the Day” i hope you got a chance to listen, and to enjoy…
i look forward to meeting you again in the future and with any luck, working with you on stage or in studio… i have been a fan for a long time and i appreciate and thank you for the inspiration…
ciao 4 now
DeReK
p.s. check out my profile if you can, and if you want to, get in touch with me. lol
ciao 4 now
DeReK
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:43 pm
“its speakers.”
not “it’s speakers.”
December 3rd, 2005 at 6:35 pm
I already preordered your cd! Plus, I’m seeing you when you come to Fort Collins! I can’t wait!
December 3rd, 2005 at 6:47 pm
sorry, guys. i just read some of what i wrote and i miss typed. i don’t believe this was a biblical ramification..all, i’m saying is that this world is alot more complicated than our opinions…
and duncan does have the right to say and believe what he wants,after all this IS his blog like topaz said, but we should be able to read it and NOT like what someone writes..and that should be ok, too, IT’S THERE OPINION!!! it doesn’t mean we don’t like THEM!!!
anyway,i’m sorry if my opinion offended anyone. i’m not a ‘blogger’,but today.. i just couldn’t help saying something..
peace
December 3rd, 2005 at 10:20 pm
uhh…………………………..tO B CONTINUED……OR NOT, BUT DEFINATELY WORTH AN ATTEMPT.
p.s. sO ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT YOUR MORE OF A PINTO MAN!
lOVES bABES
December 3rd, 2005 at 10:22 pm
tELL ME YOU AT LEAST CRACKED A SMILE
December 3rd, 2005 at 10:24 pm
He DeZZy,
I checked out your site. Not bad man! I like your sound.
~David
December 4th, 2005 at 12:00 am
thanks alot Dave… i appreciate it… i clicked on your name and it brought me to 3… what is 3?
peace peace…
p.s. just had dinner with Brandi Carlisle and then whatched her perform with Ray Lamontagne… excellent show and good kid…
she is opening for Duncan tomorrow… should be pretty sweet… anyone gonna be there?
ciao ciao
DeReK
December 4th, 2005 at 2:28 am
First: I applaud you Duncan for your honest response regarding the rhetoric behind White Limousine. Freedom ?gand in this case freedom of speech; is one of this country?s most important tenements and everyone is entitled to express their views and opinions. I agree that Mr. W. Bush has done a poor job in guiding this country so far, and that much has to be done by all of us to find a balance in these lopsided times that we live in. What to do? I don?t think I?m qualified to recommend anything, just that one should think globally about what is really going on to understand why things are the way they are, and then act locally and take a stand.
Second: What is wrong with being political? Or that this blog has become so politically charged? I think that one of the main reasons why we are in such a mess and everyone is so divided in this country (and in the general international community), it?s because there has been too much complacency from everyone?s part, while not enough efforts have been done in taking responsibility for our actions and in how they affect others. We have to pay attention at what is going on around us! Beyond our houses, our cities, borders, etc. Not since the 60?s has there been such a reaction and participation by people of all ages in what is going on in this world, and I like that! Many minds are awake now, and I predict that very soon, nature and future events will force everyone to wake up from the slumber that is conformity.
So let the dialog continue; be that a political, philosophical, spiritual, or intellectual one. Only out of debate can truth be reached.
(Oh, and are there going to be East Coast tour dates added to the website too? =)
December 4th, 2005 at 4:19 am
Dunc -
Congrats on the single.. CANNOT WAIT TO REQUEST ON XM, SIRIUS and local terrestrial radio!!
About the message behind the song.. ehhhhh… total right to your opinion and all, but really, kinda soap-boxy stuff.. didnt seem very “zen” but maybe I dont get that.. I can appreciate that you have a worldview and an opinion and it doesnt bother me at all - I can take it or leave it, listen to the words and the music or just the music.. whatever, it all makes me happy.. But, it bums me out when people (on either side of whatever line we are drawing) act like the other people are more naive, less sophisticated, more myopic, less aware, etc.. I thought it was a little pedestrian.. but, like I said, I respect your opinion..
BUT WHAT THE HELL IS BRANGELINA?
PS - I saw you at the Coach House a few months back (plan to go in Feb also) and you were kind enough to autograph a picture of my 5 year old girl holding the CD cover to your first eponymous CD.. I just got it framed and I am going to give it to her as a xmas present.. THANKS AGAIN and we CANNOT WAIT TO HEAR WHITE LIMOUSINE and BLAST IT IN THE MINIVAN (haha - -not joking.. haha)
December 4th, 2005 at 4:38 am
DeZZy,
3 is going to be the 3rd version of my music web site: The Linnium Project. It’s going to be down until I get this song written and recorded, which is what I was working on tonight. I just don’t have time to do full Flash site updates and work on my music at the same time.
~David
December 4th, 2005 at 5:52 am
Strikingly good point, Duncan. I have watched alot of CNN to notice that our focus of events seems to be on the most redundant crap, like people having their face replaced (which is interesting at best), or what some celebrity is up to in their personal lives, but the same news station makes it just another day in the life of when more of our soldiers die like its not as important or heartbreaking now as it was 4 years ago. They even go the distance at times to give us a tally, as if the more that die is sadder than just one. I find myself FORCING myself to watch any news anymore, because the world does have a fickle interest in truly important things unless it has that Hollywood element of drama to it. I for one stand behind you there, and its sad that we have to wait a few more years and watch many more soldiers die until Bush no longer has that control over their lives. This was all a clever ruse, this whole war. We started after a terrorist who attacked us, and now worry about bringing Democracy and peace and prosperity to a country that may not be ready for it yet, while our own country is in a bit of its own turmoil with the situation still bad off in New Orleans. I didn?t vote for him. I wanted Kerry.
Tommy
December 4th, 2005 at 5:56 am
leveriza, just letting you know there is another republican out there that is in love with Duncan’s music.
And i have to say, Hey Casanova is a breath of fresh air with all the crap that has been coming out. I sincerely appreciate you letting us preview the album. I have already promised 5 or 6 friends that i will buying it for them. I am sure it is going to be worth it. Can’t wait to see you in either Birmingham or Austin. They are both 7 hour drives so i have to make up my mind soon.
December 4th, 2005 at 8:16 am
The politics have nothing to do with the music?
Maybe I am surrounded by a bunch of fucking clowns.
December 4th, 2005 at 1:15 pm
Why, thank you Sliver025! “Hey Casanova” is a beautiful song…death of a ladies’ man…well, who says he cannot be a ladies’ man forever! ***snicker***
Sliver025, there’s another song playing on Rounder.com called, “The Dawns Request” just as beautiful, if not more…though, I prefer a more stripped down version…ummm, sans the string…without all the strings…the song just seems more heartfelt, painful, and sure to make me(us) weep( IMHO only) … :-)
DS, I cannot wait to hear all of the songs played LIVE! I just have to figure out which venues to go to this year…lots of concerts in CA, but then again…winter in CO could be fun…ski in the daytime and then go see Duncan at night…woooohooo…was talking about Vail, Colorado. ***winks***
Will there be any concerts in the East Coast? Alrighty, maybe I will just wait a bit more to figure out my “Duncan viewing concert schedule” for this year…as soon as you guys post a more complete version. So, “Hurry Up” (he-he-he)…
Mr. Sheik, good luck/have oodles of fun on the WBOS Cd Release party tonight…”Rock The House”… :-)
Cheers,
Leveriza
P.S.
Boochx—>PLEASE, NO EXPLETIVES…really not necessary…everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that was one persons’ analysis…tone it down a few notches…take care… :-)
December 4th, 2005 at 1:43 pm
Yes, I second that question about some East Coast tour dates Duncan!
And Boochx…yeah o.k. As crude and insensitive(and angry-sounding I might add) as your “fucking clowns” comment is, you’re right. I admit that my comment “Duncan’s political beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with his music” didn’t make much sense. It was improper wording on my part. Again.
Of course his political beliefs influence what he writes. I was simply alluding to the fact that some on here seem to be put off by Duncan expressing his political views, like they think he should stick to talking about music and nothing else. And that they’re not enjoying this blog so much now because Duncan’s on a soapbox, or whatever. I was trying to separate the two…musician/someone with strong political views. He has more sides than one…and trying to say that if you like his music, then you like his music, whether you agree with him politically or not. Holy shit I’m rambling once again and I’m cringing…
I think I give up. Some people just really get off on picking others apart, and are always looking for an argument…and I’m done giving them that opportunity.
Laura
December 4th, 2005 at 3:11 pm
From “Good Morning” by Duncan Sheik:
Who needs to join the circus
Come on, just look around
We are surrounded
By a bunch of fucking clowns
Maybe it went over your head.
December 4th, 2005 at 3:37 pm
Tacky? is the best word to describe this country?s concerns.
Great usage.
I?ll readily admit that I am ignorant of current affairs.
After watching the tragedy of “9/11″ (the crusade flag of our time) turn into the sensationalism/commercialism that it did, I really disengaged from worldly affairs. I?d taken a political science class in the spring of 01, and had actually really gotten into the foreign policy… but after the attacks, I just couldn?t anymore?g the information was so focused on retribution, and not the ‘why.’
I completely stopped watching/reading the news when my brother was deployed in January. No amount of “investigative reporting” would settle my head, knowing that he could be part of the “10 More Marines Die” headline. During the last ten months, I really started to wonder about the news sources in this country?g if they?re objective at all. If news corporations are just after ratings, am I getting accurate info? Or is it just shock and sensationalism? And more, if they?re bathed in self-interest, can I really get an objective newscast?
Luckily, Derrick (my brother) made it home safely. Since he?s been back, I?m finding that I do want to be informed about the current state of things… I?m just unsure where to go for good information. It seems that most news sources (here in the states anyway), are either out for self-interest or ratings. What other agencies can I search out? Any suggestions?
Susann
December 4th, 2005 at 3:55 pm
I don’t post much here, mainly just read, but after reading this whole thread, it jumps out at me that everyone here is missing a huge opportunity. What started out as a honest response to a question has turned into drawing a line in the sand and gotten ugly. Everyone here has a right to say how they feel, of course, but it can be done in a respectful manner. Not trying to preach or slap any hands, but doesn’t anyone else see what an incredible chance we/you have to have meaningful dialoug with someone of Duncan’s caliber? This is HIS blog after all, and he should feel comfortable in positng about any subject he wants and should be able to expect responses that further the dialoug, not run it into the ground.
I have had the opportunity to be involved in a private invitation only message board that Curt Schilling (baseball pitcher currently with the Boston Red Sox) was a member of when he was pitching here in Arizona. We had some incredible conversations, and we had access to opinions and info that most people never would get. Of course we had to promise not to divulge anything that was said to the media, and he felt free to tell us about the inside world of baseball. It was amazing! This blog is very similar in that Duncan shares his thoughts and life with us. We should all be very thankful that he gives a damn about his fans to do this. Guess what I’m trying to say is don’t blow it by being rude and judgemental. This is special chance to talk with someone great. Let’s make sure it continues…
December 4th, 2005 at 4:21 pm
Topaz,
Fair enough… I guess I just took issue to the “I’m ashamed to be an American” comment. My uncle did two tours in Vietnam and died from cancer due to the Agent Orange he was exposed to over there and up until the day he died he expressed nothing but love for his country and was always proud to be an American. He didn’t always agree with the political climate or the administration in power but he viewed those things as being totally separate from the love he had for his country.
I was out of line suggesting that you (or Duncan) move to France; sometimes when I get passionate about politics I say stupid things. I was reacting so strongly because I thought you were saying that we did something to cause what happened on 9-11.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
Peace,
Andrew
December 4th, 2005 at 6:56 pm
DS, That was Great. Thanks for sharing that with us.
December 4th, 2005 at 7:18 pm
Hey Duncan, Will the CD be out in the stores( best buy, target etc.) or just online? Looking forward to Jan. 18 Boone, NC.
December 4th, 2005 at 10:40 pm
I kind of hate to keeping fanning the flames here, but I have to ask:
For those of you go on and on justifying the war with tales of how evil Saddam H. is and how he instigated ethinic cleansing of the Kurdish populations in Iraq (both of which I’m sure are true), how does it make you feel when you look at pictures of Donald Rumsfeld smiling and shaking hands with the”evil dictator” at exactly the same moment when those atrocities were going on? Was Donald that unaware of Saddam’s true colors or was he willing to overlook those “little problems” because Saddam was in our pocket at the time? I’m really curious to know what you think.
DS
December 4th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
I have to relieve myself here; I wrote in because I felt miffed at the comparison of Brangelina readers to the uniformed…. I read equal parts of the New York Times and People mag.. I guess call it a cheap form of escapism for myself. I don’t consider myself to be so absorbed in “stardom” however, that I have no idea of political concepts/ideals/goings-on.
For the record, I am a flaming democrat- one who wears American flags because I read up that its the latest fad in Vogue magazine. ;) I figure that if the rolling American-mobile doesn’t do its job, then I will…. skipping down the street spouting off the latest Bruce Springsteen anthem for the US.
— Just for the record, I am being silly there; I am not trying to slap any behinds.
I love everyone here for their ability to form their own intellectual opinions, whether we agree with each other, or not. I am going out on a limb here to say that I doubt the Britney Spears’ blog is this interesting.
Peas,
Drea
December 4th, 2005 at 11:19 pm
Once on Jay Leno’s “Jaywalking” segment (where he goes into the streets of Hollywood and asks questions) he asked a two part question. First, name the current vice president of the US, and secondly what are the names of Madonna’s kids. Almost no one could name the VP, but everyone got the kids’ names correct. Pretty scary…
December 5th, 2005 at 12:17 am
Duncan, You are on a roll. ;)
What does everyone think about these?
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20051205/D8E9R3MG0.html
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20051205/D8E9QK9G5.html
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20051202/D8E7UH080.html
December 5th, 2005 at 1:51 am
Even after all that writing I did earlier, I have one more question:
even if we inform ourselves with the best knowledge that we can get hands on… what then?
All that can be done is wait for the next four years to pass, hope that no other pre-emptive action is taken, and whine at our congressmen/senators… but will that really make a difference? Will the war end just like that when the next guy (or gal) gets into the Oval Office? Is there such a cure-all?
As I’m reading these posts, I?m seeing a larger problem. It seems that no matter what truth lies before us (beyond personal perception), everyone’s too distracted by their own opinions to see it clearly. And maybe that’s what Duncan meant in this last blog (not to put words in your mouth Sheiky, but…). We’re still being sidetracked by lines and parties. Maybe we should look for a common goal between extremes and go for it. Something mindful, and less drastic. But I suppose in our ‘me’ culture, that might be easier to say, than to do.
I dunno. I?m so tired of all forms of combat, when in the end it?s all the same thing being fought for. Light and dark are of the same essence, they?re just different expressions.
I suppose it is all about how one sees.
Frustrated,
Susann
December 5th, 2005 at 2:49 am
I’ve tried to resist writing a long rant, but… I apologize in advance for pontificating, but there is so much to say.
Levs - that’s a great quotation, but I can’t for the life of me agree with it. Thanks for sharing, though. :)
I especially find it hard to believe after reading this: Bush Gives New Reason for Iraq War: Says US must prevent oil fields from falling into hands of terrorists. If I follow the implied logic train of that statement, the rationale would be something like this: The oil fields were under Saddam’s control. We forcibly removed Saddam, leaving those oil fields unprotected and in danger of being captured by terrorists. Therefore, we have to send our troops in to protect the oil fields from the inevitable results of our own actions. My head hurts.
(And if you’ll all recall: “This is not about oil, and anyone who thinks that is badly misunderstanding the situation.” - Donald Rumsfeld. That would explain a great deal, actually.)
Part of the reason why the human rights argument doesn’t sit well with me is precisely what Duncan mentioned. All of the monsters that administrations tend to vilify are people previous administrations put into power and supported. Consequently, my reaction to seeing that photo of Rummy shaking hands with Saddam is not outrage but bitter disappointment. Sadly, I expect nothing but such behavior. The Rumsfeld visit is important and particularly notable because of the lies he kept repeating while trying to sell the war, but the real story is that the US kept doing business with Iraq until the day before Saddam invaded Kuwait. Surprise surprise. If you look into the past fifty years, you?ll end up with a very long list of dictators the US supported. Oh, and does anyone remember Henry Kissinger? He?s the Nobel Peace Prize winner who can?t travel to certain countries (one of them being my native country of Argentina), lest he be forced to answer for his war crimes.
(To preemptively address another point [irony intended], I’m perfectly aware that Russia, France, Germany, and most likely a handful of other nations that opposed the war did their fair share of business with Saddam even after the Gulf War. I’d just like to mention that despite Rumsfeld’s talk about Germany belonging to “Old Europe” and essentially being useless, the German intelligence community gave plenty of information to the American military to assist in the invasion, even though the country’s official position was one of opposition. Needless to say, the Germans were not amused by Rumsfeld’s rhetoric.)
I also can’t help but think of the Shiite revolt that took place directly after the Gulf War. The US promised these people that they would be supported were they to rise up against Saddam. Instead, the US held back and watched Saddam slaughter them to quell the uprising. If George H. W. Bush had actually been concerned about human rights…
So why did we go into Iraq? The first time the administration discussed the option of invading Iraq was directly after 9/11. The people Bush surrounded himself with (i.e., Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle) were all Project for a New American Century war hawks who have always made it clear that their worldview involves invading Iraq and using it as an example to transform the rest of the Middle East. (Check out this letter.) Sound familiar?
The whole time the administration was selling the war, there was the idea that Iraq was involved in 9/11. Some members of the administration kept repeating this ad nauseum, even after it had been discredited. Most people still believe it. It?s this particular statement that makes me feel sick to my stomach. How dare they exploit the American public by manipulating those emotions? They might as well have spit upon the graves of all the people who died.
The first rationale the administration used was Saddam’s supposed possession of weapons of mass destruction. UN weapons inspectors knew he had no nuclear capabilities, and that anything that could have possibly posed a threat in the past no longer would have been of any use. In addition to the Downing Street memo (google it and read it), there are plenty of other documents from UK government agencies informing the Prime Minister that a) the war would most likely be considered illegal according to international laws and b) Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction. Knowing this, Blair delivered his famous line about Saddam being 45 minutes away from delivering a full-blown biological or chemical attack. (What always confused me was that afterwards, people claimed the weapons were buried underground, hidden from inspectors. How would he be able to dig everything up and launch an attack in only 45 minutes, assuming he had these fictional weapons, Mr. Blair? Hmm?) Then there’s the issue of John Bolton spying on other UN officials, the yellowcake forgery, and a great deal of other incidents.
That eventually didn’t work, so the focus shifted towards bringing democracy, peace, and freedom to the Middle East. We invaded because Saddam slaughtered Kurds in the 1980s and because he oppressed his people. At the same time, we’re doing nothing about Darfur. Does that mean that ten years from now we’ll be invading Sudan? How many other totalitarian governments are there in the world? Should we invade them all? Is it fair to people in Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan that their dictators get to go on slaughtering innocent people - including women and children - and torturing political prisoners while the Iraqis are “lucky” enough that the policeman of the world helps them out? To those of you who sincerely believe we invaded Iraq to free people, can you please answer my questions?
Assuming we went in to grant freedom to the Iraqi people, have we accomplished that goal? Can it even be accomplished by a foreign power?
There’s been an election. A constitution has been drafted. A government is slowly taking shape. But does that guarantee freedom and democracy? Certainly not.
- The Sunnis have pretty much been shut out of the process (who’s to blame is up to you to decide), which will cause a lot of problems in the future. The Shiites are much more susceptible to influence from Iran, the nation that is, after all, the main benefactor of this war. Iraq was Iran’s mortal enemy, and now, in its place, is a country essentially in chaos. Iran couldn’t really have asked for anything more.
- The insurgency is certainly not in its “last throes” as our vice president once said. The situation in Iraq has created terrorism where there once was very little (Saddam was secular. Islamic terrorists are, by definition, not. Both hated each other. Mohammed Atta did not meet with Saddam in Prague.). That hardly makes anyone safer.
- Saddam’s torture chambers were closed down…to be replaced by American prisons torturing people, mostly innocent (General Taguba claims 70% of those prisoners are innocent people with no connections to anything of relevance - the report). It’s systematic - not a case of a “few bad apples,” which by the way are turned rotten by the system into which they’re shoved. The real scandal is the administration sat on its thumbs and even now hasn’t done much of anything. Rumsfeld knew what was going on in Abu Ghraib in January. Two days after he found out, he told Bush. What did Bush do to address the issue from January until April, when the story broke in the press? Nothing. So we’ve gone from Saddam torturing Iraqis to the US torturing Iraqis. What’s next? The new Iraqi government is facing allegations of torture after US troops found prisoners that looked like they had been tortured. I suppose that’s progress, then, now that the Iraqis are the ones doing the torture instead. “We’re making progress,” says President Bush. Indeed we are.
- The war hasn?t had a very positive effect on Turkey, which has been the exception to the rule as far as the Middle East is concerned.
What I wrote in February 2003:
The problem between the Turkish government and the Kurds adds to the probability that an attack on Iraq will destabilize the region. According to The Economist, Turkey has been isolating Ocalan, the leader of the PKK who was captured in 1999. Turkey would only do that if it believes the fiercely loyal PKK members will listen to any order from Ocalan, an order which may include calling off the ceasefire and resuming attacks. The Kurds in Iraq are cooperating with the US right now, and they most likely want something in return - possibly a Kurdish state. Turkey wouldn’t exactly be ecstatic if Kurdistan were created.
From a Washington Post article: The Turkish public has also been rattled by an increase in attacks by the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK, an armed separatist group of Turkish Kurds operating out of northern Iraq. The United States has faced accusations that it has not done enough to rein in the group. - Glenn Kessler, Turks Challenge Hughes On Iraq
which brings me to Afghanistan. Some of you might remember it as Oh yeah, that other Muslim nation we invaded. The problems Afghanistan is facing now only add to my belief that invading Iraq was a terrible blunder. So withdrawing from Iraq is an awful idea, yes? Why did we essentially cut and run from Afghanistan, then? What about all those schools and public facilities the US was going to build? What about preventing the warlords from grasping control of different regions, making the democratic government useless? Maybe if we hadn?t diverted resources from rebuilding Afghanistan and actually capturing bin Laden/members of al-Qaeda to start a pointless war in Iraq, the Afghanis would be in a better situation right now. It?s unbelievable how the justifiable war became less important than the one that required the manipulation of the public to get into.
As for withdrawal: if US troops leave the country, a lot of people will die. If US troops stay in the country, that number will most certainly be much higher. Had we never invaded in the first place, we might not have this problem, but there?s nothing to be done about that now. Whatever anyone may think about how we got there, why we went, whether it was justifiable, etc. is essentially irrelevant if we?re discussing withdrawal. As always, rational people can disagree. :)
Let it just be said that I don?t blame the military or any of the troops for all of this. The actual soldiers fighting this war are the ones endangering/sacrificing their lives and suffering, not the lying politicians who shipped them there. For all they do and have done, I thank them.
I don?t hate America. I don?t hate freedom, liberty, democracy, McDonald?s and apple pie. I don?t feel like moving to France. I?m just deeply disturbed by what has been going on in this country in the past few years.
I’m sorry if I’ve offended anyone. I tend to get carried away when talking about these issues, as you can all see…
With a deep sigh of desperation,
Maria
December 5th, 2005 at 3:17 am
For me, this war in Iraq has been emotionally and philosophically difficult.. I am not a label, but I was very much in favor of the war in Afghanistan and I was willing to look @ the war in Iraq as a critical military stance taken by the US… personally, I have always felt that we went into Iraq because it was the “easiest” place for us to show our military strength. It wasnt enough just to kick out the Taliban in Afghanistan, but we had to make Islamic fundamentalist theocracies understand that we were not going to take it (9/11) without fighting back. I figured we went into Iraq because it was the obvious choice - a secular government, not an Islamic fundamentalist government like Iran or Syria. We made up excuses to get into there and destroy the government, really a message to Iran, et al that if they were going to support terrorism against us, we were not afraid of committing to battle. So that’s why I have always believed we invaded Iraq, and anything that came out in public was just to try to get buy-in from the public without saying what was really going on. I think the idea we are going in to secure oil is sh*te..
My biggest fear is still that we will pull out prematurely and in the end, the message will be lost.. Al Zaqarwi and his bunch will claim that we couldnt stomach it, that we are weak and fat and complacent, and that that will encourage more terrorist attacks, and eventually.. when there is a bombing in Idaho or in Las Vegas, or wherever, we will just go - oh well, what’s on HBO?
The war has challenged my resolve to be sure.. I think we needed to do this, but it is sickening to hear about the bombings.. I hope we can pull out our troops very soon and leave behind a country that can stand on its own and become whatever it wants to become (even an Islamic state if that’s what they want).
I am a “stauch Republican” in Orange County, CA, and yet my faith in Bush is wavering (shh.. dont tell anyone I said that). I support the message, but the messenger? I dont know anymore.. His term cant end soon enough..
In the end, I hope and pray that we develop alternative energy sources.. I hope we can remain somewhat neutral to the Middle East and at least give the zealots one less thing to use to whip their constituents into a frenzy with..
Whew! Cathartic! Now to sleep..
December 5th, 2005 at 4:31 am
Hmmm…why do I feel that the last Duncan comment is directed towards my earlier post… :-)
Alrighty, first of all politics is a very “MESSY” business/game, surely we have all realized that long ago…if it was easy and very black and white…none of us should ever feel compelled to engage one another in such diverging viewspoints, and with that said…
* Why choose Saddam when there are other maniacal monsters—leading a country(around the globe)?
Let’s see…it’s fairly easy to show that Saddam Hussein is a bad guy. He’s not just bad in himself but the cause of badness in others. If he lives/survives not only are the Iraqi and Kurdish people compelled to live in misery and fear), but their neighbors are compelled to live in fear as well.
Am going to repeat myself again…”Regime Change In Iraq” is still at the top of my list for these reasons:
*Sunni/Shi’a fighting
*Conflicts over the boundaries of Kurdistan
*Drastic Fluctuations in oil prices and productions
*Social Unrest
*Not to mention, the probable interference from Iran or Turkey
You know…as I see it we have two choices: 1)To experience my stated reasons above with an American or international presence 2)or the (unfavorable one)watch them unfold as if they were none of our business.
If an intervention in Iraq aids it from complete disorder…I honestly believe that in the long run there will be fruitful advances made, like the recuperation of the Iraqi oil industry which would be the end of the Saudi monopoly, the disappearance of the Saddam regime become an encouragement to civil and democratic forces in Tehran, as well as in Bahrain, Qatar, and other gulf states that are experimenting with democracy and women’s rights. Turkey will be vigilant about any increase in Kurdish autonomy (another good cause by the way), but even the Islamists in Turkey are determined to have a closer association with the European Union, and the EU has made it clear that Turkey’s own Kurds must be granted more recognition before this can occur.
***Okay, well I would hope that no American liberal would want to demand any less, no(?).
Well, since Duncan brought this up… :-)
* Haven’t the Republican establishment, from Dick Cheney to Donald Rumsfeld been the smiling supporter/patron/financiers of Saddam in the past(this is where the photo—Duncan has pointed comes from)
Hmmm…lots of liberal critique helped in exposing the fact that the chief opponents of a “regime change” strategy are in fact “conservatives”. They are friends of Saudi Arabia and Turkey (who likewise oppose the strategy), Kissinger associates and it even goes as far as the president’s father. The mocking remarks about Dubya finishing what the Senior Mr. Bush began has, you will notice, subsided lately…as “41’s old foreign policy hands” have been signing on with the peacemakers—> I wonder if they agree with what this intervention in the long run would bring…
Am not trying to change anyone’s opinion in the whole “war debate.”
Duncan, “horrid sick to my stomach” regarding those atrocites. I don’t really know how to answer that correctly and not anger you and others in this blog…it was a different political climate/political goals…Iran-Iraq war brought such upheaval in the Middle East and we were trying to take the neutral side….AM GETTING FRUSTRATED…I could go on and on regarding my conservative view, but it will never satisfy your liberal view… :-(
***sigh*** Let’s agree to disagree…a glass of lovely French wine sound promising right about now… :-)
Goodnight/Peace,
Leveriza
December 5th, 2005 at 4:43 am
Definitely this war had something to do with a mutually beneficial relationship with America and the Middle East over oil. And definitely things were overlooked because of this deal that lined politicians’ pockets. However, you can’t disrupt a system that has worked so well for so long without bringing trouble on ourselves. It’s like when you eat a hamburger (if you’re not a vegetarian); it tastes really good, especially at a fast food place, and you’re so happy you have it, but do you really want to know what it took to get that hamburger to you? Do you want to see the slaughterhouses and hear the knocking and screams, or pretend that the hamburger just started out magically the way you are holding it? I’m not defending the acts of any politicians, and the war makes me mad too, but there are bigger things at play as well I would prefer to leave alone. Ignorance sometimes really is bliss.
December 5th, 2005 at 5:37 am
Hi Dunc,
I’m not sure why Rumsfeld was visiting with Saddam in Iraq. Perhaps he was there to keep diplomatic channels open, as a way of using what ever lies Saddam gives Rumsfeld in person against Saddam later. You could even look at it as seeing the eyes of the enemy before taking action. I’m not surprised by the visit, I expect it. There is always some political tactic that can be used in such a way.
This is my take on the war. I want to say first that I respect the men and women of our armed forces for putting their lives on the line in any situation. Having said that, I do not like how our government uses our military.
This really started with President George Herbert Walker Bush. He did what was necessary to push Saddam back from Kuwait. The American public, however, had a different objective in mind, and were angry that the objective was not met. People in my country (America) are arrogant and blood thirsty. Bullyish is the word I’m looking for. This was the largest reason for President Bush not being reelected, although there were many other reasons.
Now we spring forward to September 11th, 2001 and the objective of capturing, if not killing, Osama Bin Laden. Just from his megaphone speech among the rubble in NY, he received a higher job approval rating than President Reagan ever saw. These numbers lowered as it was becoming apparent that the capture/death of Osama Bin Laden was not going to happen as easily and as quickly as the American public would have liked. This, and the assassination attempt on his father, I feel was his primary motivation for turning our attention on Saddam: a familiar enemy who would bring back the memory of wanting him dead or removed from power.
I don’t know if the President was aware of the false information handed to him about WMDs, but I don’t think he cared. What I do know is that we went to war under false pretences. First the story was WMDs, and then it was changed to “freeing the Iraqi people” just days before Shock & Awe was deployed. This, plus a Democratic ticket that everyone wished was flipped, was enough to get him a second term.
Now that people are realizing what an awful move it was, it is too little and too late. What is equally too late is the reversal of our presence in Iraq. I wish we were not there, but at this moment, we need to clean up the mess we made. I am willing to give it the chance it deserves, but I do not mean to say that the end justifies the means. Now what we have to decide is how best to step back and let Iraq run its course. Where I believe this will fail is that the Iraqi people are not ready for this change. If they were, I believe they would have done it themselves. We once revolted against a dictator, but were only assisted by the French. They did not initiate the resistance, we did. In addition, I don’t feel it is our obligation to force democracy upon the world. This country is only 229 year old experiment: a democratic republic that can just as easily fail as any dictatorship. We should be leading by example and hoping that the world will follow.
I know a lot of people feel that this war was justified by how evil a person Saddam is, but there are other atrocities in the world that we could focus on. I?m not saying that we should fix those situations too, but if we?re going to be the world police that this cabinet feels we should be, then let us at least be consistent.
It is clear to me that we picked this fight because wanted reelection, our soldiers are paying for it with their lives, and the American voter, in a slow economy, is paying for it with their tax money. We should not have been so arrogant. We should have used our resources to bring our economy back.
~David
December 5th, 2005 at 7:52 am
I usually don’t dive into political discussions but since I visit Duncan’s blog on a daily basis I thought that I should add a little something to this conversation. To start with, I must say that I do not agree with war, I truly believe that if the world and its leaders wanted peace that they could achieve it, but everything is all about obtaining power, and no “one” wants to give up their own power (or the power in which they think they have). I work at a News/Talk station in the D.C area and hear the political debates day after day,and cannot believe the things in which I hear. There shouldn’t be lines drawn. We shouldn’t be put into catagories.Liberal, conservative, black, white, man, woman. Aren’t we all part of the human race? Why does there have to be so much separation between us? Some group is always trying to double-cross another group and quite frankly I’m sick and tired of it all. I don’t agree with everything the Bush administration has done as I’m sure most aren’t but did anyone ever stop and consider that President Bush is merely flesh & blood, and those of us that are human will always make mistakes. Again, I do not think that we should have went to war, but the-fact-of-the-matter is we are in war. The media which is clearly biased, left winged, and anti-Bush need to either begin reporting a balanced accurate account of politics and the war or need to stop reporting all together. Criticizing isn’t going to get the troops home any sooner, and it isn’t going to get Bush out of office. The Kerrys, Moores, Clintons and Murthas of the world, need to stop their pointless banter because it isn’t adding anything positive, and in these times of war, corruption, and media liers, negativity is something we can all live without.
December 5th, 2005 at 8:26 am
“…How does it make you feel when you look at pictures of Donald Rumsfeld smiling and shaking hands with theevil dictator at exactly the same moment when those atrocities were going on?”
And didn’t Time magazine once proclaim Adolph Hitler as “Man of the Year”? (Jan 2, 1939)
I don’t get your point.
Remember the phrase, “Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer”.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:03 am
DS, good choice with the posting of your response to “katrinka” rather than making an independent post on said topics…sneaky.
It’s good to see everyone laying it out on the table for once. However, I can barely stand reading through all these for one reason. I obviously can’t say what each of your relationship is with DS, but it seems like a bunch of you have appointed yourselves to translate every post that he makes. I question who’s blog this is when a handful of people make 10 times the posts of the author.
My politcal input…stop wasting your time pointing fingers and protesting or defending…”Both” parties, and everything in between should be focusing their energy on finding the next president. Introduce america to your next best option and start rallying support behind them on a national level. Either side. Unfortunately for the Republicans, this would mean giving up on the current admin. and for the Democrats this would mean accepting the current admin. I guess everyone is too polarized to do either.
One last thing. I could get through these posts a lot quicker if everyone could spare their bit about free speech/opinions and the whole “that’s what our country is about” thing. If you say it, it’s your opinion, you don’t need a disclaimer at the end of each thought.
December 5th, 2005 at 1:51 pm
adamchaffin,
I don’t our media has any other bias than the money bias. I don’t remember our media being at all quiet during the “Lewinski Incident.” The media will report what ever makes them money by getting viewers glued to their station, listening to their radio shows, or buying their newspapers and magazines.
We were lied to. Regardless of the fact that we are at war, it does not mean we should quiet down our voices. I will continue, as I have in the past, to protest anything I feel is wrong, as that is not only my right, but my duty as a United States citizen. If I had anything positive to say about the Bush Administration, I would.
~David
December 5th, 2005 at 3:02 pm
I think it’s ridiculous that these radio stations couldn’t make up their own minds about what the song was about. Don’t they have an advance copy of it they could listen to and then decide if it is “appropriate” for their listeners?
December 5th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Regarding the above post about the Time “Man of the Year,” the wikipedia has a good article about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_the_Year
December 5th, 2005 at 3:11 pm
Ever read “State of Fear” by Michael Crichton? It’s a great book.
Most of you will wonder why I bring that up. Let me just say that my reasoning is much more subtle than you may think. If you’ve read the novel, and think you know what I’m getting at; stop, and think again.
Something for all sides to consider:
This country(USA) is lead by a single man, but it surely is not run by any one single man.
~Sad Steven
December 5th, 2005 at 3:32 pm
So nice to know that we now have an expert on blog etiquette in our midst. Thanks for the posting tips DWV! Your expertise is greatly appreciated.
Laura
December 5th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
NP
December 5th, 2005 at 5:44 pm
mike_relay,
Thank you for the link to the Wikipedia entry. I didn’t understand until reading it how Time Magaszine selected their Person of the Year.
~David
December 5th, 2005 at 5:44 pm
I just wanted to give you all a heads up. “I Don’t Believe in Ghosts” is now on rounder.com. Thanks again Duncan for all the great music you continue to share with us!
December 5th, 2005 at 5:57 pm
I read and watch the news as little as possible. It’s proven that headlines and storylines today are bought, manipulated and sensationalized. Our misfortune is, we as a society buy into them readily and much too often. I do however, log on and read quite frequently, harrowing accounts of the war in Iraq @ www.OperationTruth.com/ To do so, evokes true anxiety in me and I’ll admit it’s much easier to sit down with the current issue of “People” magazine than it is to flip thru vivid, hostile images of war… Do not think for a second I don’t have a clear understanding of what’s going on in the world however…
My thoughts on this debate run the gamut, but here is the premise of what I continue to believe. I believe as American’s, you and I, could benefit from shifting our focus away from the dissention of “blame and reasoning” and put that energy toward healing a nation. How we accomplish that remains blurry…it’s uncertain, I understand this. But, perhaps, one way to start is to stand with the men and women fighting for you and I, our families, our children. Put yourself in their shoes…
With so much hostility connecting our worlds, why is it necessary to spark hostility with words? What is done is done. Whatever reasons offered however miscommunicated or misleading, are now history for the books. Whether you are anti or pro war, does not change the fact that we are at war and the expense of this war is the lives of our fellow countrymen and women, many of who are barely legal. It saddens me that only two, maybe three, of you mentioned our troops. We sit in our warm, safe houses at night in the peaceful presence of our family, while they clammer around in unsafe vehicles and armor, buying time until the next round of mortar hits. A wake up call my friends…
Why do we become so enraged and wrapped in ourselves over his/her/mine/your opinion…this is where we often miss the point. Yes, use your voice to be heard! Use it for the common good of all mankind, but for God’s sake, do so with a heavy heart.
Excerpts from A Soldier/Operation Truth…
as told by Lawrence Provost
“To capture what it feels like to be home as a veteran from the Iraqi War is almost an impossible task.
The spectrum of my emotions range from full to deep and are difficult to convey in such a short format. However, in this, there would remain one sure thing that no movie could ever catch and no written word could espouse; these feelings will remain forever in the hearts of those who served this country.
Almost daily I moved through my duty risking my life for people I didn’t know. It was impossible for me not to gain a keener sense regarding the importance of life and all its priorities. As I read of life back home during this time I questioned if America fully realized we were at war and wondered if they knew how much that hurt.
Upon my return, I was saddened to see hot dogs sold at the World Trade Center, knowing the remains of some victims lay in a garbage pile in Staten Island, and to see nearly 16 acres void in New York City.
It is upsetting that politicians can send this country’s youth off to war, but would never send their own children of age off into the fray, essentially informing them to suck it up and go to war with the Army we have. This idea, and the lack of call to sacrifice by the Administration, has helped perpetuate the notion of “we support our troops” but “we are against the war.” The reality is most of the anti war crowd do nothing to support us; we are paid lipservice by them while many pro war people would never do our job.
This April 9, I walked through Greenwhich Village and later the World Trade Center Fence, engaging in polite conversation with many people. One gentleman asked me, How does it feel to have been lied to. Whether I agreed with this gentleman or not, he would never know as I told him that it was not the time nor place.
Now, when mentioning I came home from Iraq silence perpetuates. Older people thank me but my generation does not make eye contact. At 26 I am locked out of my youth. Yet I have no choice but to rediscover the joy of living and to honor the memories of those we have lost, and will lose in the future as we all gain in wisdom, compassion, and truth.
Veterans are not simple-minded. We see the complexities, except when it comes to surviving. Just like everyone else we laugh, we cry, we look at life from both sides.
Though hard to talk of war, it is necessary to attain understanding. After all, why would one go through hell for selfish reasons? Quite simply, serving our country means we are serving you and the reasons why we do this is because we love both America and her people. The only thing that speaks louder than war is love.
Love causes an American soldier to risk their life for friend and foe; Similarly, it must be the same love that propels a firefighter into a 110 story building. This love allows for life and for the living of that life.”
In order to change the world, we have to first change ourselves.
peacelove&empathy
December 5th, 2005 at 6:25 pm
David, I had no idea myself. I couldn’t believe it when I read your post and I had to double check. You learn something new every day I guess.
-mike
December 5th, 2005 at 6:32 pm
mike_relay,
I actually did not post the comment about Hitler and Time Magazine. Booxch did.
~David
December 5th, 2005 at 7:58 pm
I have a candidate that I hope will run. He’s the current governor of my state - Mark Warner. He’s everything that Bush isn’t - a good speaker, intelligent, fiscally responsible, self-made, and a Democrat.
In this recent election, my precinct had an incumbent Republican running uncontested for reelection to state congress - guess what - lots of people wrote in their own candidates such as Mickey Mouse or Superman - people are becoming increasingly fed up with the Repubs, even in this Republican leaning, highly governmental/military region.
Does anyone remember that incident on a newshow (I think it was Larry King) where Bush attacked John McCain on his military service/POW imprisonment and made him teary-eyed during the last campaign? I mean here’s a guy that was a POW for 5 years, he comes out to find his wife has remarried, and he was still gracious enough to do a Saigon minitour (my mom was one of the many that guided him on the minitour), and decades later he has to suffer the insults of a guy who was basically hiding out at the time… That was one of the most disgusting, dishonorable things I’ve seen out of B’s face - and it made me cry for McCain and perhaps for all military.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
CiCi I’m from the same state as you. Mark Warner definitely should run for president since through some unfair law here in our state, he is not allowed to run for a second term and has already been replaced. He would make an excellent candidate, just look how much he has turned things around for us. Good call.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Levs, I have a few minor points - Turkey had no incentive to interfere with Saddam’s regime. He was keeping the Kurds oppressed, and that did nothing but help Turkey. As for Iran, the situation is better for them now than it was before. In the past, they had a secular enemy in a bitter stalemate after the horrid Iran-Iraq War. Now they have a country that is far from stable and is being primarily run by Shiites, the very group over which the Iranian government could quite easily have influence. Tehran is salivating at what’s happening now, not cowering in fear and thinking about serious reforms. The recent election of the hard-liner president and the move towards a nuclear weapon are just two frightening recent events that highlight this huge problem. In any case, I’m more than glad to hear what you think…and would love to take you up on that wine offer. : )
David, I think Bush must have been aware [how could he not be?] that the intelligence handed to him was cherry-picked and not representative of the actual situation or just completely false. I agree with you, though, that he didn’t and still doesn’t care.
In general, I don’t think it’s “finger pointing.” It’s forcing people to actually take responsibility for what they have done. I’ve always failed to see how saying the administration lied the country into a war is playing the “blame game.” I agree in a sense that what’s done really is done, but I personally think what the administration did was criminal. That is not something I can ignore, forget, or simply passively condemn to history books.
I also am not convinced by the argument that Rumsfeld was in Iraq to get information from Saddam that could later be used against him. It was pretty obvious what was going on, even then. Rumsfeld’s first visit was in December 1983, five years before the Halabja gassing of the Kurds. At the time, Iraq was using chemical weapons, including mustard gas, against the Iranians. The Reagan administration removed Iraq from the terrorism sponsorship list and sold Saddam 60 Hughes helicopters (officially sold for “crop spraying”), when the National Security Council had knowledge he was using such helicopters to deploy chemical weapons. I fail to see how Rumsfeld and the Reagan administration were trying to get evidence to use against Saddam at some date far in the future. They were just trying to make sure Iraq won the war.
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer”? In that case, let’s invite Osama for a cup of tea at the White House while we put Tony Blair in front of a war crimes tribunal. The other popular piece of folk wisdom is “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” That idea has been getting us into most of these messes.
I think we’ll most likely be withdrawing soon, judging by what Murtha’s been saying. When he speaks, you know at least half the Pentagon is backing him up. I’d rather see withdrawal, but I certainly have mixed feelings about it all. What a disaster.
Peace [?],
Maria
December 6th, 2005 at 1:13 am
goodness I guess I better get in on this too…..I think the response was very well worded Duncan….I dig the way you formulate; ) It was an honest response…and truly, if you don’t have passion, especially for what you believe and for what you spend your days doing, what have you got? I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you are passionate about your music….am I right? You shouldn’t be passive about what you love. It is amazing what a change in format will result in (80+ blogs to be exact) …..imagine though, it was all there in the lyrics the whole time…
It is a great debate but I think we all just need to drink some Greek/Ikarian wine (like nothing you have ever tasted to be sure) and listen to some Brent Berry and Honest Abe (Monsoon is great, I say give it a listen)…
good night and peace….Clara
December 6th, 2005 at 1:42 am
kandi, you are so on the mark.
Thank you.
A week ago, there was a display of combat boots belonging to soldiers who were lost in Iraq, being hosted in one of the buildings of my school. Because I’m freakishly interested in the dead (or maybe just a masochist), I walked among them. Words cannot describe the rush of pain, worry, and fear that I felt as I read the name of each pair’s owner. Even now, I’m still shaken when I think about it. Just the utter sadness of each family… How it felt to slip away in a totally foreign place, away from those who loved them…
Off to the side of the memorial, there was an entire wall covered with piles of civilian shoes- most with names, some without. It was a display of the “otherside” of the conflict?g and that we aren’t the only ones losing loved ones. Among the wreckage, there were many children?s shoes. A pair of glittery beaded slippers is the most memorable?g the kind any girl in her teens would wear, now empty.
It frustrates me to tears to think that we don’t see the conflict by means of people… Every little action is so very important… and yet, pulling the trigger to keep alive is all that can be done… :sigh:
There has to be a better way.
Uh, my chest is physically aching.
I can?t add any more to this blog.
Empathy and compassion, (I cannot express this enough)
Susann
December 6th, 2005 at 2:46 am
Wow! This is good! Let the fire burn!
And now, just a comment kind of off-field… to keep the fire.
Something that has ALWAYS bothered me regarding the current presidency is that back in 2000, when W. Bush and Al Gore were rallying for the presidency, was that while Gore’s platform was focused on the environment, science, education, and better relations with the International Community; Bush & Cheney could only talk about “we need to spend more money on our military”, we need better weapons “we are not safe”, etc. Whenever I would hear them talk about that, I though it was misguided since at the time the USA was in top shape, and talks about war & military involvement were just not topics in anyone’s minds -except for Bush & Cheney, and SPECIALLY Cheney.
Anyhow, after Bush won under suspicious circumstances (remember Florida?), Bush?s popularity pre-9/11 was falling fast and he seemed very out-of-place as a president. But then the unimaginable happened, and Bush & Cheney?s platform became relevant ?gfinally they made sense, while 6-9 months prior they did not whatsoever. And I don?t think that it was because they had a really good fortune teller behind them, but rather, well get my drift? I know it sounds sacrilegious and morbid, but I can?t help thinking that we?ve been deceived this whole time. And although I don?t deny that Hussein and Bin Laden are just heartless fiends; events in this country have been shaped behind smoke screens to fit the needs & greed of other certain-similar individuals at the price of other innocent ones. Maybe back in 2000 we weren?t doing as well as it appeared and the events that came to be just reaped that veil, or maybe we were in the right path to a more enlightened future. I don?t know I know I?m being very negative, but I just can?t shake the uneasy feelings that I get. I know that one can?t change the past or just linger in what could have been, but one can indeed try to change the future.
So there, no offense to anyone.
And for some interesting watching material, I recommend anyone who doesn?t believe that the government likes to have a shady hand not only in our country, but in others as well, the documentary The Trials of Henry Kissinger, it?s very good.
Cheerio,
-Lucia
December 6th, 2005 at 10:11 am
Also there is a film called “Missing” about the coup in Chile in 1973. It stars Sissy Spacek. America was soooo involved in that. The US thought they should remove the dictatorship and replace with Pinochet because they thought they could control him, who as it turned out, killed thousands upon thousands of innocents…
My Chilean friends suggested I watch this as to understand why so many resent the US still to this day. There was a mass “memorial site” a couple miles from my house that honors many of the “missing” from the northern Chile area.
We would probably be shocked to know just the extent of our involvement in many of the world’s dirty little secrets. Personally, Dick Cheney makes my skin crawl. There is something evil about him that I can’t shake. I think he and Rumsfeld are both evil and manipulative. IMO W is just their puppet.
December 6th, 2005 at 12:28 pm
Maria, points well read/taken…let’s agree to disagree…if only people of your own age were so “au courant” with the politics of their country… :-)
I would love to continue debating you, but am afraid it’s gonna take another long, long response, which sadly, I cannot at the moment…gazillions of things to do for the holidays…so, raincheck for when we see each other again…I will bring the lovely bottle of French wine…Cheers, Maria :-) BTW, Duncan is very much invited if he’s niiice… :-)
~Best,
Leveriza
December 6th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
I’m a bit tired from my trip back from Amsterdam today Duncan, but thank you for always being truthful.
PS. A Triangular Box awaits you!!
XO
BW :) Love
December 6th, 2005 at 10:43 pm
I have tried to read most of these posts, but cannot finish. (Way too many)
With that, I will say that Bush sure has screwed up in many ways and we better EACH LOOK OUT FOR THE WORLD WE LIVE IN!!!!!
Atleast in Holland, all the people there seemed nice to American’s.
We should all look out for eachother. Better that than read the paper or watch some stupid Television shows, Tabloid Magazines, etc.
M
December 7th, 2005 at 2:17 am
For God’s sake, guys. He’s just saying what “White Limousine” is about. Take it with a grain of salt, already!
December 7th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
Brilliant, Duncan.
I couldn’t agree more.
BJ
December 7th, 2005 at 7:30 pm
Isn’t Time calling their Person of the Year Mother Nature or something year because of all the natural disasters?
- Russell
December 7th, 2005 at 11:38 pm
Yes, Mother Nature says it all, but with our Help…and she really Needs our Help!!!! I did say “HELP!!!”
December 8th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
I’m going to be very candid here. I haven’t been very excited about living in this world for some time now… and George W. being re-elected was one of the worse days of my life. I cried 4 times that day.
I’m so sick of the world’s focus on “bling bling”, using animals as accessories, and who cheated on who with whom! This world is so much about ego!!! Look at our own President!!!
I used to look so forward to music awards shows. (I even recall crying when Alanis one her first Grammy.) Now I could care less. I can barely stomach them.
All I really have to look forward to is when good music with introspective lyrics is created and released. Thanks, Duncan.
December 8th, 2005 at 10:27 pm
Question:
Would we have been better off with John Kerry in office?
Why must so many people be polarized one way or the other?
Face it…Bush sucks, Kerry sucks, Clinton sucks, Cheney sucks…so does Kennedy, Lott, DeLay, etc., etc., etc. ad infinitum.
It would be refreshing to have some celebrities grow some cajones and start campaiging to get rid of every incumbent.
But no…each district/territory will still vote his/her candidate in because it’s the OTHER politicians who are crooks/liars/cheats.
Enough said. I still like Duncan’s music. Maybe I’m just pissed cuz he didn’t play “Barely Breathing” at his last show. Yes, D, I AM poppy. :-)
December 9th, 2005 at 10:47 am
Lets face it. The world is about money, not principle. Ask anyone who has a choice and they’ll tell you. If you take the money over people route, you are ‘clever’. I personally choose people over money, attitude over ego and most all heart over exposure.
At least someone is spilling the beans on a creatively exhausted industry that is the world.
December 9th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
I think you just became my personal hero.
I’ve been having some real issues lately, not as much with Bush or the US’s political situation as with my friends throwing around such hateful words at things they don’t understand any better than anyone else. They don’t look at the deeper problem, many of them don’t even research that which they claim to hate. It really bothers me because they become part of the larger problem: they aren’t thinking for themselves but rather seem to regurgitate words that hold meaning for them only because it does with some influence in their life - the media, parents, friends etc. It reminds me of what you say here because it’s not even that their view is so inaccurate but they put no real thought into their own worldview. And that makes me sad for them.
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